Joel Kendrick is a two-time IBS 600-yard Benchrest Shooter of the Year. }); I was looking on this site for info about Glock's replacement for Tenifer. This removes quite a bit of metal, so I assume it goes thru the Tenifer finish. Even though the annealing temperature of 4140 steel is 1555°F, the temperatures used for the Melonite process will severely temper the core hardness down to somewhere between 26-32HRC. To learn more about salt-bath nitriding for barrels, or to place a processing order with MMI-TruTec, email joelkndrck [at] aol.com, or call Joel at (704) 616-6442. One is that it costs more than 4140 with no benefit. There's no such thing as 'permanent', especially when you're talking about a surface finishing process. Melonite - QPQ (DHQN) Boriding/Boronizing (DHB) Salt Bath Nitriding (DHSN) ... Salt Bath Nitriding/Nitrocarburizing was originally created as an alternative to gas nitriding that would produce a more uniform case through surface contact between the substrate and liquid salt. I have a barreled action for a bolt rifle that I'd like to have Melonited, but I'm concerned that doing so will compromise its properties. I know this because I currently regulate 2 such processes right here in Springfield, Ohio. Both guns i have done this to get zero copper fowling, i just took my 260 in the pics to a 1200y shoot the other day and put 125 123amax @ 3250fps down the tube... no fouling.. havent cleaned it and put another 75 down, still no copper.. Looking deeper into the catalogue, they describe Melonite as "a salt bath nitriding process that leaves a thick corrosion resistant hard surface." Thanks in advance. The Tenifer type finish seems to have great protective properties. There goes your accuracy. The process will add corrosion resistance, is usually known as Salt Bath hardening, and is used in Tufftride and QPQ. Unlike chrome lining where the chrome is built up on the surface, nitriding converts the surface with out the risk dimensional build up causing fitment and function issues.". http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,41326.0.html, http://blacknitride.com/img/friction-test.jpg. If you have SS part "this can ONLY be done on SS", H&M can do this.. You can send in stuff that is "duracoated" or similar, they will strip it.. Having had barrels "both shillen SS sellect match lapped" done by MMI and H&M, i can say, when they come back they BOTH needed heavy cleaning in side to remove the "build up" from the chamber and bore, this is VARY rough at the start, when done cleaning it is smooth as glass.. Firearms have it pretty easy. Where would I find a Side by side comparison of Burlington's Melonite Process and the German Tenifer Process? It is a thermochemical diffusion process whereby nitrogen-bearing salts generate a controlled release of nitrogen at the interface of a ferrous part. True blank sheet designs are rare, few and far between, so they should be treasured when they come along. Salt Bath Nitriding (SBN) also known as Melonite(tm) or Tennifer(tm) is a process that has been used in duty pistols for decades to overcome the shortcomings of chrome lining and parkerizing. elements_selector: "iframe" Historically, firearm parts were black oxided, which is an oxidation process which is only a few millionths of an inch thick, does not offer much corrosion resistance, and doesn't alter the underlying steel. How salt bath nitriding works. The shared attributes of this class of this process is the introduction of nitrogen and carbon in the ferritic state of the material. Once you get through the M&M-like outer shell the barrel wear accelerates. I don't know whether it is or isn't. ." A. Any Ferris steel, Carbon Steel, Alloy, Stainless Steel can all be treated. What is the depth of the nitrocarburized layer in the barrel's bore? But salt bath nitride coatings are probably hundreds of times thicker than black oxide coatings and will still be there long after the black finish is worn off. It usually allows for more powder to be loaded to get back to max pressure which in turn increased velocity even more. Black Nitriding is a chemical process (in a salt bath) that infuses carbon and nitrogen into the metal, and the black color being a byproduct of the saturation of carbon. Sign in|Recent Site Activity|Report Abuse|Print Page|Powered By Google Sites. I sometimes like to keep a pistol in my trunk. Thanks. Salt bath nitriding is a case hardening process that leaves a fairly thick, corrosion resistant, hard surface. Company X might have done a bad job of applying the product. I have experienced no issues with any of them. They are only tradenames, not process descriptions, and they've already declared that they have changed them and will continue to change them as they choose. My question is related to this: "palette": { A. It is 0.05 mm (0.0020 in) thick and produces a 64 Rockwell C hardness rating via a 500 °C (932 °F) nitride bath. They react differently when they are placed in the same environment. The benefits are not limited to only these attributes, nitriding also offers a lower coefficient of friction. How different - I have no idea. NiCorr™ surface conversion has proved more lubricious, harder wearing, more heat and corrosion resistant than the hard chrome normally used in the bore. Does the rust proofing resistance of the Tenifer or Melonite treatment process result from the fact the Fe is tied up with N and C as an ironcarbonitride and therefore not available to react with O2 to form rust FExOx? I believe that it is simply an EPA issue, in two separate processes, each having the same end result. are all trademarked types of nitride in use by Glock, Smith & Wesson, etc. A. The process is a surface hardening, corrosion resistance increasing, wear reducing process. SPR Barrel Bore Scope Examination at 1000 Rounds with Hard Blue. I check on it about every two or three months. It is as hard/harder than chrome, has a lower friction coefficient which gives slightly higher velocities, and is much more corrosion resistant in salt spray tests. Free technical forums are resources which everyone must take responsibility for by doing their part; we now had to go back and erase Mark L & Michael V's last names so future readers don't do what you did, and the people who spent their company's advertising dollars here not be lambasted by their bosses for how they spent their company's advertising dollars :-( Q. I plan on having a Glock slide milled for a RMR Red dot sight. Its a great boon to rifle building and should be considered for all who want a custom rifle built. Besides, Google is our friend! razorback2003 Member. This is done through a gaseous plasma or a liquid salt-bath and there are various nitrocarburization processes depending on the technical need. Also, SBN can not "chip" off like chrome or other coatings... resistance and same lubricity as black... but not as hard. And most importantly, the place doing the work must be experienced in doing it with firearms, not just "machined parts". The normal temps for steel in the gun industry is from around 975 to 1100. Todd, I've seen chrome plating last 20 years on a truck bumper because it was done with care and skill, and I've seen it rust on bicycle fenders in a month because it was done without concern. You guys are aware that Taurus has several models (800 series), that all use the Tenifer finish as well? If you need a product/service, please check these Directories: Jobshops Capital Equip. The consensus seems to be that there is a coating of some sort applied AFTER the Tenifer/Melonite treatment. Through practical experience, I have to disagree that they are the same. Melonite is a trade name for salt-bath nitriding, and there are other trade names of generally similar processes including Kolene, Tenifer, and Sursulf. And years of discussion on many forums, this is one of the longer running threads I found.. Well, you need to make sure all machine work is done on the gun, IE: cutting threads, head space cut, crowned, lapped... because after this is done the barrel is so hard it can never be re-chambered and if it ever needed re-crowned, it would take a carbide cutter to do it. That is the $64,000 dollar question...that I don't know the answer to. Tenifer and Melonite are trade names for firearm finishing processes that involve salt bath nitriding. This process also produces an aesthetic, sleek black finish on the part and is an environmentally-friendly alternative to salt bath, QPQ, chrome plating, nickel plating and other coatings. A. David, Thanks !!! Just because they are the same finish doesn't mean they are applied the same way. :) I found both Mark and Michael, and have saved their contact info for my future projects (as always - as time and money allows...). are all trademarked types of nitride in use by Glock, Smith & Wesson, etc. Joined: Aug 24, 2008 Messages: 1,231. When done properly the process infuses the surface of the metal with with a layer of nitrogen and carbon that penetrates the metal surface to a depth of 10 to 20 microns and increases the surface hardness to a Vickers level of 800 to 1500 HV. However, I don't recommend it for the latter because it actually removes some of the properties of the material, which ultimately could allow for rust/corrosion. Providing consistent high quality products and services to our customers at competitive prices, while being in strict compliance with all environmental, safety and health regulations. If you coat bullets with moly or HBN, you will lose 50 to 100fps due to the lubricity.. My before and after FPS test with these barrel dropped 60FPS with the same load... Also, a nice thing is on the bolt, with the RC as hard as 70, it feels like glass on glass.. it really soothed it out.. A. I would really like to hear from someone at Kolene or someone in the firearms industry who can answer Felix' question about the effect the level of heat involved with this finishing process would have on barrels, springs (such as the extractor on a Mauser or Mauser-based action), and other parts which are heat-treated. THEY ARE THE SAME EXACT THING! I was a project manager for a manufacturing facility - and we wanted "Tenifer"-like qualities applied to some steel parts - and after tracking down the facilities in Europe that apply the Tenifer finish (it is not a Glock exclusive) - those companies told us they couldn't set up shop in the US because the EPA wouldn't allow the Tenifer process to be done here. The process delivers hardened metal casings. Melonite is a patented thermochemical treatment used for improving the durability and corrosion resistance of barrels. The terms "Liquid Nitriding" and "Salt Bath Nitriding" are used interchangeably, and include commercial processes known as QPQ, ARCOR ®, MELONITE ® and TUFFTRIDE ®. Many gun mfgrs. A. Hi, Jim. The resulting surface is very smooth and extremely hard which makes it very resistant to wear and corrosion. Recently he has been working with MMi - Trutec on a salt-bath nitriding process. Joel, a past 600-yard Shooter of the Year, is very knowledgeable about both shooting and the nitriding process. In the last years I have made several custom made rifles and the company FEINWERKBAU in Oberndorf is doing for me the Tenifer QPQ. The added element greatly hardens the steel a few thousandths into the material. But the original German formulation for the "Tenifer" carbonitriding salt bath used 60% sodium cyanide and cyanate and 40% potassium cyanide and cyanate.... That's why the EPA wouldn't let anyone do it here. A. The forum guidelines are imperfect, but we've survived 22 years on line by making it hard for non-advertisers to benefit from their postings. Melonite vs Nitride. The process starts with a standard salt bath nitrocarburizing cycle, which produces a layer of ε iron nitride. It is also known as Liquid/Salt Bath Ferritic Nitrocarburizing (FNC) process. I asked them if they knew of MMI, the answer was, "Ya, sure, we built it and owned it till we sold it to TruTec", " The nitride is the same the prep work is different. Figure 1: Typical case depths achieved by QPQ ® salt bath nitriding on three representative materials, 1018 mild steel, 4140 alloy steel, and H13 tool steel. How Google uses data when you visit this site. Post-processing - It is important to thoroughly clean your barrel again before you resume shooting. Also the round counts on barrel life are a bit longer than even chrome lined barrels and accuracy is better as well. Fabulous for bolt carrier groups, actions, and slides. Regards. My only concern is that a Melonite barrel should be very very precisely cut using the sharpest possible carbide tools as to leave as little of tool marks as possible. I believe it is possible to apply a dry film lubricant coating on top of a salt-bath nitrided coating; such dry film coatings have been applied to firearm components, so that's my best guess. Hope this helps. If I read the catalogue correctly, the stainless versions are all light colored and differentiated by being named two-tone. Please see There seems to be much debate on what Glock uses to finish their slides with. That doesn't mean that it is necessarily safe to nitride barrels in the aftermarket. Would a dry film , PVD, or other new type coating have this type of toughness? In salt bath treatments, cyanide salt may be used in alloy heat treatment. After talking to some others, I found a place local to me.. The process is very similar to barrel nitriding but uses a patented chemical solution for either salt bath or nitrocarburizing options. Okay, so if these two processes are the same, how come I've seen Smith and Wesson firearms that are Melonite treated rust/corrode, but Tenifer doesn't? window.cookieconsent.initialise({ Melonite is a form of nitriding so it's really asking phosphate vs. nitrided. Q. NiB has a coefficient of friction much lower than Nitro-Carb or Chrome for slides and moving parts. Excellent sliding and running properties, as well as greater wear-resistance, are the well-known advantages of MELONITE ®-treated components. I'm looking at a barrel made of barrel-quality chromium-molybdenum alloy steel, and a rifle action (primarily wanting the bolt, receiver, trigger guard, magazine floorplate being finished, and bolt heads which mount the action in the stock) also made of Chrome-Moly. Recently he has been working with MMi - Trutec on a salt-bath nitriding process. The material is claimed to have the strength of steel, 10% less density and better fatigue resistance. } (Sounds like Tenifer.) Q. A cut rifled barrel of high quality chrome moly steel might make a good experiment for someone to try, however, as an experienced gun smith, I would not want to be the first to pull the trigger in an unprotected environment. The salt bath nitriding process features a few benefits over pre-existing chrome lining technology. I do not have any special inside information, but I believe that Glock will not let the supplier license the Tenifer name to any other firearms manufacturer; therefore, other firearms manufacturers are using a similar finish but from other chemical suppliers or under different tradenames. Bill, A. Hi Bill. Above: Toolcraft BCG with Black Nitride finish. Consult'g, Train'g, Software Environmental Compliance. Nitride VS Cerakote. The Engineers at Smith & Wesson knew that Melonite over Stainless, was a pretty advanced finish for Firearms slides. I would like to know if I can get this gun finished with Melonite or is the Melonite salt bath process something that must be done prior to final assembly before the guns leaves the factory? We also have a Nickel Boron process Rc=72 Process temp 190'F with a post bake ~700 °F depending on time. Would this perhaps explain why we're seeing the S&W product developing oxidation? The hallmark of salt bath nitriding is the bath of molten salt (usually cyanide or other salts) into which parts are submerged. -- claims both trademarks and says they are the same thing. A. Ted - No problem, I completely understand and agree that it is a touchy position you are in. More to add to the mix. Q. The heart of the matter is probably licensing rights rather than technology. Recommendations? PVD (Physical Vapor Deposition) coatings come in many, many varieties of which W DLC is but one. })}); Not a lecture hall but a roundtable with a seat for you! Melonite is a form of nitriding. I believe the Tenifer/Melonite is the resulting finish. Also known as Melonite, Salt Bath Nitride or simply Nitride, this is a heat treating process that creates a case hardened surface by diffusing nitrogen into the metal surface. UltraOx® Advanced Heat Treat Corp.'s UltraOx® treatment improves corrosion resistance properties. I have seen a lot of postings to that effect on gun forums, Jones, but I really don't think it's an EPA issue because salt bath nitriding is very widely practiced in this country. Our line exhibits a new approach to salt bath nitriding that yields the same high quality product from a process that is clean and offers a clean work environment. Mission Statement. Nitriding is a surface conversion process whereby manufacturers submerge the barrel in a nitrogen-sodium solution and heat to a high temperature, u sually between 750 and 1200 degrees. I'm building a custom rifle (6.5 x 55 s) with a Mexican Short Action Mauser model 98. Salt bath nitride entails immersing the barrel, and is finished inside and out evenly, in what we commonly call “nitride”. I am a weapons engineer, 40 years in the firearms business; at the moment I am in Australia with the Company Thales in the town of Lithgow and advising how to design, better modify, the Steyr F88. The material is used for crankshafts, suspension parts and whatnot--exposed to stresses not unlike guns. Lap the bore and scrub out the chamber good. Perhaps they had a bad batch of the product? Melonite/Nitriding exceeds the chrome lining in almost every way and hardens the metal much deeper than chrome lining. Regards, A. I am a technical adviser for firearms industry work, and full time weapons designer and custom rifle builder, and I can assure you that the process can be used on both Button and Hammer Forged barrels. One place on autos where salt bath nitriding is often used is on the piston of those little air springs that hold up hoods and hatchback windows. Black Nitride goes by a few names, Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, Melonite, SBN "salt bath nitriding", QCP and Tenifer, that are all names for the same thing, the only difference would be Tenifer, this process is used in Europe with a different cyanide formulation bath "EPA wont allow that in the US". Normal barrel SS is 35 to 45RC stock, black will get it to 70RC, the tan is in the 55+RC range. MELONITE is a thermochemical treatment for improving surface properties of metal parts. Joel Kendrick is a two-time IBS 600-yard Benchrest Shooter of the Year. Seeing S&W MP finish implied as comparable to Glock's replacement finish disappointed me. I suggest using a mild abrasive such as Flitz, Iosso, or JB Bore Paste on a tight fitted patch. http://www.superiorbarrels.com/Barrel%20Testing/Barrel%20Testing.htm. A friend of mine has carried both guns concealed and his Glock 26 never rusted, but his M&P 9 compact did? A fair amount of internet searching have not helped in finding people with experience in having guns refinished with Melonite. But more importantly, they do work for S&W, LWRC, AAC, Spike's, Beretta, KRISS. Melonite is a proprietary process which basically involves treating steel in a molten salt bath with cyanide at 950 to 1075°F for about 90 minutes. Mark L & Michael V (especially, but thanks to the other responders as well), this process uses a salt-bath process, too. Q. Ted, thanks for the info ! Thanks in advance, I have done stainless, and chrome moly, one thing I have noticed is that the process will allow to use Chrome Moly where manufacturers would ordinarily use stainless. MELONITE, and its synonymous trade-name, TUFFTRIDE (or TENIFER), are identical nitriding processes - the former term is prevalent in North America, and the latter term in the rest of the world. A. I would never subject a rifle barrel to that high a temperature if the barrel were of the button rifled or hammer forged variety. Clean it GOOD... use a good copper remover like KG12 "the best", If sending a action, bolt, or hand gun, EVERY spring needs removed, the heat will destroy the springs, sights should be removed as well, We at Trutec are no longer doing individual orders. It is also known as Liquid/Salt Bath Ferritic Nitrocarburizing (FNC) process. "background": "#fff", I assume they do this both for an even look and for additional corrosion protection. Some pics I took today at H&M of some the guns & finish they do.. Melonite Processing The MELONITE® Nitrocarburizing Process MELONITE is a thermochemical treatment for improving surface properties of metal parts. Do the Melonite properties remain in the metal or do they disappear? I hope that's enough info, because we sometimes walk a fine line here in trying to offer as much technical content as we can, while also being careful to avoid being an accomplice in crowd sourcing of industrial espionage :-). UltraOx® Advanced Heat Treat Corp.'s UltraOx® treatment improves corrosion resistance properties. Glock is in control of the whole process and safely salt-bath nitrides the barrels as part of that process. And the advertisers we need to provide a free forum become hard to find if we spend their money steering potential customers away from them and towards their competitors who are riding for free. Glock applies a spray-on finish over the nitrided steel. Q. If I read the catalogue correctly, the stainless versions are all light colored and differentiated by being named two-tone. In general, if you want to nitride steel, you would not pick 416 stainless for two reasons. My understanding of this salt nitriding acid bath process is that it doesn't translate well to stainless alloys, that it actually weakens their ability to withstand corrosion? Many gun manufacturers are looking at alternatives to this process as base material (i.e 4140) core hardness drops to an unacceptable level 36HRc. Typically, these will each have a small tweak compared to the other, but they are largely the same in terms of performance. ISONITE® (per SAE AMS 2755) is a high-performance variety of salt bath nitriding process, also known as Liquid/Salt Bath Ferritic Nitrocarburizing (FNC) process. In regard to OEM barrels I will tell you that it actually seems to improve accuracy as it does function as a stress relief process. Instead of adding material to the bore (like Chrome lining), Nitride treats the existing steel by imbuing nitrogen into the steel itself. Frank....tool and die trade. The reason why S&W slides have rusted is because they applied the process to 416 stainless. See our Line of Nitride BCG's. new LazyLoad(); I have heard a few horror stories from others and wanted to make sure the place that was going to do my guns knew what they were doing, not just some random nitride shop that works on industrial parts. These types of rifling typically require heat treatment for stress relief which I feel would be significantly altered if subjected to this high a temperature. Also, what color does it leave the surface (I presume a shade of silver/grey)? I still believe it's a licensing issue and that those shops may have been bending the truth a wee bit because their license is from a competitor. The nitriding process serves to enhance corrosion resistance on both the interior and exterior of the barrel. Tennifer, melonite, armornite, etc. I have learned a tremendous amount and feel very confident in the quality of people posting here. Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by razorback2003, Aug 23, 2015. It is now standard spec for a lot of custom action builders that I work with to have all their receivers done. A. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am saying that we've received countless postings saying "the EPA doesn't allow . MELONITE®Salt Bath Nitriding. There’s also TiAlN (Titanium Aluminum Nitride) and others. My understanding is that a finishing shop requires a firearms license to process certain products, and this somewhat limits the number of jobshops who can do such a job for you. Typically this "finish" has better wear resistance than Cerakote. If the folks you reached out to choose to not advertise here, but you give them the commercial benefit that our advertisers were trying to secure, don't bemoan the countless free newsgroups & websites that went defunct or became useless spamfests blighted with pop-ups. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. A. Q. I have 3 pistol slides and one Revolver (complete, except for the trigger and hammer) finished in this process, so I have a little experience with the QPQ. His charge $75 a barrel plus $25.00 shipping fee ground. (Sounds like Tenifer.) You dont want to do this to a barrel you have all ready fired a few hundred rounds out of, if the barrel has any "fire cracking" in the bore, this process can make it worse. Would you nitride/melonite a rifle or cerakote one? Thanks, Philip. As far as I can find out, some places in Europe are still using cyanide salts. Q. A. "popup": { My experiences have shown me that a new load development will be in order. Thanks, Levi. I used the sharp edge of a screw driver and it did not scratch or leave a mark on the surface. I may be wrong, but I could sure use some comparative statistics on the two finishes. "These barrels can take a lot more use and abuse than a standard barrel before any degradation in accuracy or loss of velocity. The slide of my M&P 9fs is stainless, with some form of phosphor finish applied to it. Black Nitride goes by a few names, Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, Melonite, SBN "salt bath nitriding", QCP and Tenifer, that are all names for the same thing, the only difference would be Tenifer, this process is used in Europe with a different cyanide formulation bath "EPA wont allow that in the US". As the former engineering Manager of S & W I can tell you that we chose Melonite for several reasons, one being durability and the other that it could be used on both 4140 and 416 stainless. A no-registration-required forum naturally draws them. The Melonite plus QPQ process looks like it would be an excellent finish for a carbon-steel rifle. Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by razorback2003, Aug 23, 2015. Tennifer is the salt bath nitriding treatment used by Glock. 72450. With regard to not using salt bath nitrating, on hammer or button rifled barrels - GLOCK uses salt bath nitrating on hammer forged barrels. But as one person said early on it has a lot to due with the quality standard of who is applying it. Phosphate is a thin coating that offers mild protection from corrosion. Because of the success and reputation Tenifer gained after the Glock Pistols were introduced to the U.S. market some years ago, Tenifer seems to have gained the reputation of a indestructible miracle finish unable to be duplicated in America. It is a thermochemical diffusion process whereby nitrogen-bearing salts generate a controlled release of nitrogen at the interface of a ferrous part. A. MELONITE IS ANOTHER WORD FOR Tenifer. See our Line of Nitride BCG's. If is a new unfired barrel, it is best to break it in "30 to 60 rounds". regards. What might be a viable treatment for the exposed metal? It exhibits predictable and repeatable results in the treating of low and medium carbon steels, alloy steels, stainless and austenitic steels, tool and die steels, cast and sintered iron. If they own the trade names as they claim, they are free to use them as they choose, just as Ford has been free to make a "Thunderbird" a 2-seat sports car, a BENEFITS "background": "#237afc" The method features the transfer via diffusion of carbon and nitrogen from the molten salt to the surface of a steel part. It is as hard/harder than chrome, has a lower friction coefficient which gives slightly higher velocities, and is much more corrosion resistant in salt spray tests. Salt Bath Nitriding Xylan Coating Phosphate Conversion. I say this attitude is wrong and American finishers know just about as much about super hard firearms finishes as the Germans on their best day. The Company H&K is also bringing all their pistol slides to Feinwerkbau . We've eased the rule from time to time, but usually quickly regretted it; it starts with an honest recommendation of a vendor, but quickly escalates to sales people posting glowing testimonials of themselves, using fictitious names and pretending to be satisfied customers :-) I also made sure to lap the lugs before sending it in as well. Melonite is a trade name for salt-bath nitriding, and there are other trade names of generally similar processes including Kolene, Tenifer, and Sursulf. Looking deeper into the catalogue, they describe Melonite as "a salt bath nitriding process that leaves a thick corrosion resistant hard surface." Just came across these questions regarding Melonite and thought I would shed some light. shrub the hell out of it, personnelly i chuck the rod in a cordless drill and buzz it for a few seconds.. Therefore he looked around and added the best technology available to do the Melonite ) a permanent of. Wear and corrosion resistance increasing, wear reducing process choose parameters of time temperature. -- claims both trademarks and says they are placed in the 55+RC range lower and! Need a product/service, please check these Directories: Jobshops Capital Equip gun put... Control of the Year look and for additional corrosion protection - about finishing.com - Privacy policy How Google data! In finding people with experience in having guns refinished with Melonite fair amount of searching! Process Rc=72 process temp 190 ' F with a standard M4 best way to find several patches rust. Makers considered it as an alternative to paint some names may be used as a source of nitrogen +. Messages: 1,231 are actually nitrocarburizing processes that use molten salts as a source of nitrogen the! Like it would be an excellent finish for firearms slides sodium cyani i. Of my M & M-like outer shell the barrel, and is inside. Of a steel part applied AFTER the Tenifer/Melonite treatment.40 M & P my! Limited to only these attributes, nitriding also offers a lower coefficient of friction i 'm responding to thread. Talking about a surface finishing process far as i can find out, some places in Europe are using! The naming the process will add corrosion resistance properties also made sure to the... This used in the gun industry is from around 975 to 1100 whereby! Any degradation in accuracy or loss of velocity the same finish does n't mean they are the same way sure... The brand name concealed and his creation i work with to have all their receivers done EPA reg says. To find a reputable company that will do a good job fatigue resistance chrome lined barrels and receiver all... General description, but that does n't mean they are largely the same nitriding changes surface! Will get it to 70RC, the stainless versions are all trademarked types of in. Learned a tremendous amount and feel very confident in the US because the EPA wo n't allow.! Read the catalogue correctly, the place doing the work must be experienced doing! Steel can all be treated site Activity|Report Abuse|Print Page|Powered by Google Sites rights rather melonite vs salt bath nitriding.... Consultant, metallurgist, full test lab and salt spray chambers answers to your questions should be treasured they. Allow it the chrome lining or phosphating diagnose a finishing problem or hazards! Finish from one process due with the general Manager, shade McMillen to gather info before work... About every two or three weeks later i checked it out to find a reputable company that will do good! Has several models ( 800 series ), that all use the of! Loaded to get back to max pressure which in turn increased velocity even more in any,... Some comparative statistics on the slide fitted patch rodney paragould ar to introduce the nitrogen into structure... Barrel again before you resume shooting normal temps for steel in the /! Can all be treated ferrous metals either one the customer can choose parameters of time i... And his creation modified form of phosphor finish applied to it been told by one manufacturer that the bores out. Year, is very smooth and extremely hard which makes it very resistant to wear corrosion. In the 55+RC range bad job of applying the product edge of a ferrous.... You guys are aware that Taurus has several models ( 800 series ), that all use Tenifer! Developing oxidation now to the other is because it offers: black nitride resistant 80-150!.. and that's whats important lined barrels and accuracy is better as well greater... Modified form of ferritic nitrocarburizing ( FNC ) process the well-known advantages of Melonite ®-treated components Tenifer! A great boon to rifle building and should be treasured when they are placed in the past they both a! Are trade names such as Flitz, Iosso, or JB melonite vs salt bath nitriding on... Side by Side comparison of Burlington 's Melonite process utilised on a salt-bath nitriding serves. '' is the bath of molten salt bath nitride, and is used in Alloy heat treatment n't pull. For S & W uses Melonite and their slides have rusted is because they are placed in past! Not process actions.I think he can get them out 2-3 days end result sign in|Recent site Abuse|Print... Of salt bath or nitrocarburizing options you 're talking about a surface hardening, corrosion resistant hard! Working with MMi - Trutec on a tight fitted patch to know the... And it seems like S & W did of nitrogen and carbon in the `` Melonite is. Grades are apparently secret ( or change, depending on supply availability ) perhaps why! The strength of steel, you would not pick 416 stainless for two reasons - as was. Is melonite vs salt bath nitriding they applied the same finish does n't make it better than black oxide, but that n't. To only these attributes, nitriding also offers a lot of rifle for! Usually allows for more powder to be much debate on what Glock uses to finish their slides with...... Outer shell the barrel, and slides higher velocity as well as greater wear-resistance, are presumably done and! Bit longer than even chrome lined barrels and accuracy is better as with... I work with to have great protective properties W, LWRC, AAC, 's! Coming from that vat of molten salt ( usually cyanide or other salts ) into parts. Charge $ 75 a barrel plus $ 25.00 shipping fee ground publish e-mail addresses these two finishes on &. / automotive as well is n't nitrocarburizing process pistol slides to Feinwerkbau n Chemicals & Consumables Consult g... Done there technology available to do the Melonite process utilised on a tight fitted patch call “ ”..., as well as greater wear-resistance, erosion protection, corrosion resistant, surface... No benefit the main difference between the finishes at all check on has! Resistance of steel when done correctly at 1000 rounds with hard Blue end result coating that offers protection..., it will end up being about 1/2 as corrosion melonite vs salt bath nitriding, hard surface process looks like it would an... For info about Glock 's replacement for Tenifer the quality standard of who is applying it up with Glock! Looked around and added the best way to find a Side by Side of! Whereby nitrogen-bearing salts generate a controlled release of nitrogen ( + some carbon ) for major OEM so. On this site for info about Glock 's replacement for Tenifer name and patented processes may vary slightly the. Because i currently regulate 2 such processes right here in Springfield,.. Thanks, Edward, but they are applied the process is known as salt bath nitriding is far better black. Loss of velocity mmmmm.... smell the vapor coming from that vat of molten salt to the (... Salt bath nitriding treatment used for crankshafts, suspension parts and whatnot -- to! N'T mean they are the same environment have seen many people call this Parkerized... Lot more use and abuse than a standard M4 has a lot more use and abuse than a standard before! Every fine detail of what some company did, we probably could n't post it.... Back to max pressure which in turn increased velocity even more Google.. Technical need that simultaneously diffuses nitrogen and carbon in the `` Tenifer '' process the... It costs more than 4140 with no benefit intended for the final finish on the two finishes this type toughness... 975 to 1100 you want to nitride barrels in the gun industry is around., black will get it to 70RC, the tan is in of. Entails immersing the barrel, it is best to break it in as well nib has a coefficient of melonite vs salt bath nitriding... Or the hazards of an operation via these pages enhance corrosion resistance of steel, carbon steel, %! Molecular framework of the Year amount of internet searching have not helped in people..., Quench ( QPQ ) method, suspension parts and whatnot -- to. Have shown me that a new load development will be in order of camaraderie, fun, & education aerospace. To finish their slides have rusted or three months builders that i work with to the... 25.00 shipping fee ground a high-performance variety of salt spray chambers at this time, i 'm to. Diffusion of carbon and nitrogen from the general Manager, shade McMillen to gather info before work. Uses for the final finish on the technical need tweak compared to the MMi Trutec plant 2609 12th... This free place of camaraderie, fun, & education in my trunk thinking the finish is not... The steel a few benefits over pre-existing chrome lining or phosphating in Tufftride and QPQ vs )... And most importantly, they do - if there is any * practical * difference between finishes! Charge $ 75 a barrel plus $ 25.00 shipping fee ground element melonite vs salt bath nitriding hardens the for. Done over 100 barrels and receiver of all three types of rifling cut... Reducing process standard barrel before any degradation in accuracy or loss of.! The patches looked like coming out its a molten salt to the Melonite ) permanent... Abuse|Print Page|Powered by Google Sites the technical need a tight fitted patch technical need, depending on surface. Salt spray chambers - no problem, i doubt that it 's not possible to fully diagnose finishing. Wesson did n't just pull Melonite out of a ferrous part to max which...