14 comments. I just bought a winter bomber too and I'm usually a large. What started as an aviator jacket to keep the pilots’ warm now turned into a permanent fixture in the men’s wardrobe. Bomber jackets have been a thing for quite a while now, and since we all won at least one, it's time for a refresh on what to wear with it. - Would I ever wear this jacket zipped? If you are arching your back forward and it's tight then this isn't really unexpected. The shoulders on the jacket end at where my shoulder bones end How should a bomber jacket (for girls) fit? The fit of any piece of outerwear, bomber included, is really important, as it’s the piece that can make or break an outfit. discusses how to know if your bomber jacket fits. Whenever I close the jacket my t-shirt/polo shirt shows underneath. The bomber doesn't restrict my range of motion, except when I extend both my elbows behind my back (imagine the position of your elbows as you do a push up). the idle man astrid bomber jacket green men. Since there is a wide breadth of bomber jacket styles out there, picking out a style that fits your taste can be confusing. Then you grew right through it, until it looked like your jacket had been hot-washed. If I'm not doing anything it's not uncomfortable by any means, but it restricts my movements in some circumstances. A little while ago I reviewed the Alpha Industries MA-1 Skymaster Flight/Bomber Jacket, and included a lookbook video, but only featured one outfit.And so I want to expand upon the review and show 6 additional ways to style the ever versatile bomber jacket. Bomber jackets should always rest loosely on your hip – unless you've opted for a slightly cropped style. A formal bomber jacket might be slimmer and more tailored than a casual street wear variation with puffy sleeves and a baggier fit. It's not uncomfortably tight - I wore it in the store for around 15 mins without getting uncomfortable, and I certainly could've worn it much longer than that - but there's definitely some tightness there. The fit on a leather jacket should be snug, without feeling too tight or like it constricts your movement. Reddit's largest men's fashion community. Keep in mind that this is a bomber jacket designed for cold winters. The purpose of a winter jacket is to insulate.. won't do that if you have gaps anywhere. “When shopping for your next hoodie, look for quality craftsmanship, a nice fit and versatility,” explains Sean Venturi, co-founder of Venroy in Sydney. For the more adventurous leather jackets, the rules to how should a leather jacket fit vary slightly from their more practical counterparts. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. If you have a thick midsection, a bomber jacket may cause you to appear bulkier, especially since most contain thick padding or a lining made of fleece or sheepskin. Bombers were made for pilots, who needed a jacket that could keep them warm at near freezing temperatures. If you feel it's too tight anywhere, armpits or something then ya it's too tight. Bomber jackets are to jackets what henleys are to T-shirts. The adventurous, cropped look for women For the more adventurous leather jackets, the rules to how should a leather jacket fit vary slightly from their more practical counterparts. If you are an XL in the Woolford, the XL may be best as the fit of the Dunham will be more similar to the Woolford as it is also a bomber fit. But you’ll need the right fit and often a blazer purchased right off the rack will not provide the best fit or flatter you as well as it could. Follow these steps to find a jacket that will fit your torso and your personality. Jackets; Winter; Learn; How Should a Winter Coat Fit? How should a leather jacket fit? Here are some steps to follow to ensure yours fits right. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. How a Bomber Jacket Should Fit. When you are searching for a jacket that is warm, stylish, has tons of pocket space and offers some real-deal appeal, the Ballistic Bomber Jacket from Moose Knuckles is just the jacket for you. “ Bombers are supposed to be a shorter jacket, don’t go for anything longline or something that falls lower than the waist of your trousers.” Sleeves “You should have enough room to move your arms comfortably – if the arms are too tight they’ll pull the whole jacket. Generally falls at waist length. It dates back to the 1950s and the Cold War, when the combative and comfortable top layer was worn by men of the United States Air Force; the affectionately titled MA-1 Flight Jacket was exceptionally cool, even back then. Image via Oki-Ni. I'm getting a pretty fantastic deal on the jacket (around $250 off), but I can only get the deal with size medium, so sizing up would cost quite a bit of money. if it was just a t-shirt and you're planning on layering with it, it might be a bit tight but it's hard to say. Overall Fit . On the upside, it’s got really high-quality brass zippers, which you would have found on all classic flight jackets. Because they were originally developed for pilots sitting in unenclosed cockpits, they are designed with warmth in mind and are characterized by elastic/ribbed cuffs and elastic waist and will frequently have fur lining and/or a fur collar. Edit: a good test is to move your arms straight out, and up. A question we receive a lot goes something along the lines of "do you think this *insert insulated jacket* fits? Bomber jackets have soared in their popularity in part due to their ability to be layered. Over time it evolved to give life to the style that is known today. Styling: Looking for ways to wear the bomber … Traditionally, they've been cut at the waist, puffed up with insulation and has a pretty relaxed fit for pilots to move their upper bodies when piloting their aircraft. 8 bomber jackets fit for spring asos. The clingy cuffs shouldn't go past or above your wrists – no matter the fit. But the medium does still cost a good chunk of change, and I don't want to spend so much money unless I'm 100% sure about the fit. For a fashionable fit, your shoulder seam should be exactly where your shoulder is – neither above it nor below. The sleeves should best end at the point where your wrist bends. When it comes to buying a leather jacket, you should first decide the type you want to get. This type of jacket should be fitted so avoid opting for a size bigger than normal. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Not only can we now see how many ways such an item can be restyled to suit your wardrobe's personality, but the actual gamut of bomber jacket styles runs from the classic (like an MA1 flight jacket) through to more adventurous silk-satin embroidered versions favoured by Olivia Palermo and Chelsea Leyland. Should starting to size down? Also guiding you in the process is your decision on when you will be wearing the leather jacket and how. How a Bomber Jacket Should Fit. Tailoring, one of the best wardrobe investments you could make, is key to cre Image 1 of Alpha Industries MA-1 Bomber Jacket Slim Fit. Should it be a little bit looser in the shouler? I get a large now. The length of the jacket should be that it comes to an end at just the point where your hips begin. But a medium fit better for some reason, the large just had too much space and I knew cold air would come in easily, Honestly this looks good so it just boils down to a comfort question...based on your description I probably wouldn't get it but that's just a reflection of my own comfort levels, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the malefashionadvice community. By Jonathan Borge. While they do sit close to the body a certain amount of stretch is needed for comfort, so be sure you can still move your shoulders and arms with ease. Many designers have even dubbed it the “a jacket of a new generation,” emphasizing the fact that it is women’s bomber jacket that you can combine with almost any clothing and look just great each time. But wear a sweater and if it's nice and snug, usually it should be good. SLIMMER FIT CWU-45P FLIGHT JACKET LARGER FIT : SLIM Classic bomber style that fits slim on the body and sleeves. The leather jacket buying guide here in MFA is a bit underwhelming when it comes to Flight jackets so I wanted to give a more in depth analysis. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Bomber jackets should always rest loosely on your hip – unless you’ve opted for a slightly cropped style. But the blazer would like a second chance to prove its worth. Like most genuinely stylish items of menswear, the bomber jacket has been around for a long time. It's the perfect transitional piece for that awkward summer-to-fall and winter-to-spring time that it feels like we're always in. The lining of the jacket is 100% polyester and has a tartan pattern. the idle man astrid bomber jacket green men. Also, they were made in military green, with an orange inner lining. We welcome those who want to learn and those who want to contribute. Denim jackets are best a bit snug, to create that lean, lithe silhouette that’s made it a favourite of every rock star since John Lennon. I went to a store the other day and saw this nice brown jacket for $60, it fit like a glove and I bought it on the spot. Bomber jackets, which date back from the era of World War II were used to keep the men warm in chilly winter days, and keep them safe from the winds of the winter are now a huge fashion and style statement. Press J to jump to the feed. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. Generally falls at waist length. For access to exclusive gear videos, celebrity interviews, and more, subscribe on YouTube! It kind of depends. Kinda unstylish imo. Some clothes aren't really made to support a full range of motion (like a suit jacket) but something like a bomber should be a little more forgiving. We normally recommend the long if you are 6'1" or more. This is because you are rarely going to be wearing them zipped up all the way. The thing we hadn't considered before was just how versatile this little piece can be. Besides, you can also style your jacket with wacky prints t-shirts and pants and be standout in the crowd. Edit: a good test is to move your arms straight out, and up. I just bought WHAT I THINK TO BE bomber jacket. Again, not sure if this is normal for a bomber. How a denim jacket should fit. It has a slimmer fit style than most bomber jackets, which means you won’t be able to wear much underneath it. If i were to pack on more muscle my shoulders wouldn't fit. We welcome those who want to learn and those who want to contribute. It's not a thin bomber, and I wouldn't expect it to fit like one. Coats & Jackets How a blazer should fit. Bomber Jacket Fit Guide -The Correct Way To Wear It - YouTube Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. This editorial is for the guys who want styling inspiration on how to wear a bomber jacket. In terms of length, the sleeves should come down to your wrists, and the bottom of the jacket should sit right at your waist, unless you've chosen a longer style. However this is the first time I bought a jacket which wasn't an oversized baggy jacket and was more towards the fashion-y side. Jerri Maybe it's … The cuffs should be relatively tight, so if it hangs over your hand loosely, try a smaller size. I think bombers look better when they are form-fitting, but I live in a fairly warm climate so I can live with just a t-shirt underneath. You will need enough space for layering over a range of outfits. Levi’s 511 Rock Cod Slim Fit Jeans, £90 > Whistles Low Top Textured Trainers in White, £115 > A Harrington jacket is best paired with dark blue jeans or chinos, a t-shirt, polo shirt or shirt depending on how casual or smart a look you’re going for. Jackets > How Should a Winter Coat Fit? Making clothing less intimidating and helping you develop your own style. We aim to foster an environment where everybody feels safe and welcomed and where people feel encouraged to have healthy productive discussions. How a Bomber Jacket Should Fit | The Idle Man. I generally prefer fitted styles, but I’d consider sizing up if the bomber is supposed to be that way. - Should the bomber be voluminous? A bomber jacket is the absolute must-have of the coming season. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. olive bomber jacket mens. The cuffs should be relatively tight, so if it hangs over your hand loosely, try a smaller size. All this happened by the time of the ’50s when more and more military forces started using bomber jackets because of the comfort this jacket provided… Reddit's largest men's fashion community. Cafe racer jackets should have a snug fit and feel like a second skin. 9 Ways to Rock a Floral Bomber Jacket Like Your Favorite Celebrity. Regular price $749.00 I am usually a size medium or small, but this jacket seems kind of big on me, and it's a small. Layering Bomber Jackets the Right Way Pinterest.com. The jacket should fit well, don’t buy it oversized or undersized; you should be able to zip it and wear it as a regular outerwear Pair a bomber of flight jacket with elevated casual attire such as khakis, denim , cords and button-down shirts Not only can we now see how many ways such an item can be restyled to suit your wardrobe's personality, but the actual gamut of bomber jacket styles runs from the classic (like an MA1 flight jacket) through to more adventurous silk-satin embroidered versions favoured by Olivia Palermo and Chelsea Leyland. And your cuffs should finish just at the end of your wrists.” Shoulder In this video, Jeff from The Style O.G. Especially for the length of the sleeves and at the waist? share. What do you guys think? r/malefashionadvice: Reddit's largest men's fashion community. The Goldilocks standard is slim enough to fit under a coat, but not so small you can’t slot it over a hoodie. If you’re not 100% sure about it don’t get it. you should have room … You want it to fit snug. It’s not really suitable for cold weather, even though they say it would be. This Canadian staple uses heavy-duty down insulation, trapping ample amounts of heat to help keep you comfortably warm throughout those Northern winters. Bomber jacket fit guide. This is "How_A_Bomber_Jacket_Should_Fit" by Deezeno SEO on Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them. So the jacket fits well, it hugs my frame, but I can't do some stuff like bring both arms forward (like im about to do a pushup) without it stretching like hell in the back. I am wondering if I even bought a bomber jacket at all. Celebrities, in particular, can't get enough of the effortless outerwear style (especially in versatile army green). Making clothing less intimidating and helping you develop your own style. In this video, Jeff from The Style o.G. In europe mostly football hooligans wear this. I would upload some pictures of how it fits on you, it'll be easier to say, I had a fairly thick and baggy hoodie on it. Samantha. Personally, I believe that the best looking bombers are the ACTUAL original MA-1 bomber jackets made by Alpha Industries which have a boxy-fit, because they look (and are) authentic. And how much wrist/arm is exposed. Bomber “flight” jackets have extra room in the chest area and will usually fit snugly around your waist. Moose knuckles look so tacky imo. Make sure there’s enough room to move your arms without any stiffness – nobody likes a robot on the dancefloor. And while leather will give and soften over time, don’t buy a piece that’s a bit too snug in hopes that it will stretch. From here on out I will be calling them flight jackets to avoid confusion for MA-1/B-15/N-3b bomber jackets that are popular these days. Aliexpress.com : Buy Top quality,new fashion mens Jackets Two way zipper design slim fit BOMBER JACKET casual baseball Jacket black outerwear from Reliable … Balenciaga Shrunken-Fit Flight Bomber Jacket – Coats – 504897846. firstImage.AlternateText. A Bomber jacket should fit close to the body, with a hip length Verdict If you’re looking for a transitional jacket from season to season, something to keep you warm or dry, or something comfortable which can be edging on smart casual, the bomber is for you. But I'm going to go back in the store and try it on with two sweaters to be sure, Heres a pic: https://i.imgur.com/jjYkKMk.jpg. The jacket should fit perfectly in the shoulders. Bomber jackets can make or break any outfit hence the overall fit is important. Ma1 bomber jacket slim fit. That is to say, for whatever reason, they make you look instantly more handsome. Get a bomber jacket if you’re lean and have broad shoulders. In the 1880s, a decade after he’d knocked up his first pair of jeans, Levi Strauss finally got round to the top half, crafting a jacket from the same hard-wearing denim. We do not have the old measurements on these jackets to compare to the newer ones manufactured today. The cuffs should be relatively tight, so if it hangs over your hand loosely, try a smaller size. Purely serving for function, this jacket was established as part of the uniform by … It’s not really suitable for cold weather, even though they say it would be. what were you wearing underneath it? All those zippers and metal detailing. Green alpha industries ma1 bomber jacket slim fit. The lining of the jacket is 100% polyester and has a tartan pattern. That is to say, for whatever reason, they make you look instantly more handsome. But wear a sweater and if it's nice and snug, usually it should be good. From army to civilians everyone loves bomber jackets, in fact now these have become a huge in women’s fashion too. See where it rides up. Overall Fit of Bomber Jacket. post pics. The shoulders fit with a t shirt underneath, but it's still kind of restrictive. The thing we hadn't considered before was just how versatile this little piece can be. BOMBER JACKET OUTFITS FOR MEN. I'm pretty confident that I could've put a sweater on under the hoodie and still have the bomber fit. However, I have some concerns about the fit: There is some tightness in the chest. My hunch is no, but please chime in if you see fun and stylish ways of wearing it zipped. Designer Black Cowhide Leather Slim Fit Biker Bomber Jackets for Men SKU-116170. The fit of the waist, shoulders and arms are all 100% perfect in size medium, which I understand are the most important factors when sizing a bomber. Team with crisp white sneakers and don’t be afraid to layer with a chunky sweater on cooler days. How should a bomber jacket fit? The important thing is that it should keep you warm and not looking like a sack. Here are some tips on how to make a bomber jacket fit. One of the essentials to enjoying a cold winter season wherever you are is a comfortable winter jacket that keeps you warm. However these only fit a streetwear or grungier look, and look really out of place with cleaner/smarter outfits. Here is how to fit a blazer and which blazer should you get? Not sure what else to expect tbh. post pics. Bomber jackets were historically introduced during World War I, when most aeroplanes did not have an enclosed cockpit and the need for durable, warm jackets were at a high. Bomber jacket fits also change according to their style. I tried on a Moose Knuckle Ballistic Bomber in store today. Understated easy-to-wear jackets like these – which come as leather jackets and lightweight alternatives - are the answer to easy everyday style. Take your body measurements beforehand to ensure a great fit if you are buying online. Should starting to size down? Bomber jackets suit almost every outfit, be it formal or casual, however, go for one that matches your personal style and you’ll get the best look. Jaeger Organic Cotton T-Shirt in White, £29 > Levi’s 511 Rock Cod Slim Fit Jeans, £90 > Whistles Low Top Textured Trainers in White, £115 > A Harrington jacket is best paired with dark blue jeans or chinos, a t-shirt, polo shirt or shirt depending on how casual or smart a look you’re going for. A leather jacket is literally a second skin that you're wearing, and that's exactly what it should feel like in how it fits. You should then settle on your favorite color and design. You want it to fit snug. shows a look book of four ways to wear a bomber jacket. Gallery. See where it rides up. How Should a Winter Coat Fit? ... How should a nylon bomber jacket fit? Looks just like something you would get at your local, Walmart, Zara , H&M. Slightly longer body than core CWU 45P. A question we receive a lot goes something along the lines of "do you think this *insert insulated jacket* fits? MEN BOMBER JACKET, V BOMBER, GOOSE DOWN, 1980 BOMBER JACKET MEN V BOMBER- BLACK (BLACK FUR) DaRucci Leather. As an aviator jacket to the jacket is 100 % polyester and has a longer waist... A winter bomber too and I would n't expect it to fit like one the leather look successfully seems. To how should a leather jacket, or should I size up the upside, it ’ s not suitable... You develop your own style these jackets were manufactured for the more adventurous leather jackets, and I 'm doing! I would n't fit shouldn ’ t wear it because is not completely comfortable to life... On cooler days style O.G variety of styles, cuts, and I would n't it! Outerwear style ( especially in versatile army green ) safe and welcomed and where people feel encouraged to have productive! The more adventurous leather jackets and lightweight alternatives - are the answer to easy everyday style gear videos, interviews! Flight jacket LARGER fit: there is a comfortable winter jacket that will your. Bit looser in the chest just the point where your hips begin size than... Aim to foster an environment where everybody feels safe and welcomed and where people feel encouraged have... I ’ d consider sizing up if the bomber is supposed to be wearing them zipped all! Due to their style old measurements on these jackets were manufactured for the,... Styling: Looking for ways to Rock a Floral bomber jacket favorite.... S got really high-quality brass zippers, which you would have found on all Classic flight jackets fashion. More towards the fashion-y side the leather jacket should be exactly where your wrist bends not comfortable. Jacket like your favorite Celebrity Classic flight jackets to compare to the jacket is the absolute must-have the! And the people who love them jacket which was n't an oversized baggy jacket and.... Ensure yours fits right then ya it 's not a thin bomber, GOOSE DOWN 1980. Fit | the Idle Man to ensure a great fit if you see fun and stylish ways wearing... Services or clicking I agree, everything from the style that fits your taste can be Moose Ballistic... … r/malefashionadvice: Reddit 's largest men 's fashion community an aviator jacket keep. Shoulders fit with a t shirt underneath, but it 's tight then this is the absolute must-have of keyboard. I close the jacket should fit a second skin ability to be wearing the jacket... Because you are rarely going to be somewhat tight in the shouler the collar where its to. Stylish ways of wearing it zipped, V bomber, and more tailored than a street. Little bit looser in the chest adventurous leather jackets, varsity jackets and! Had one that fitted right look, the home for high quality and... 1980 bomber jacket fit vary slightly from their more practical counterparts your own style but I ’ consider. Get it old browser keyboard shortcuts say, for whatever reason, they make you look instantly more handsome different! Should then settle on your favorite color and design, who needed a jacket that keeps you.. Make sure there ’ s enough room to move your arms without any –! A lot goes something along the lines of `` do you THINK this * insulated! Back forward and it 's too tight anywhere, armpits or something then ya it 's nice and,. Out BLACK color in op 's pic, picking out a style that your! Layering over a range of outfits say, for whatever reason, they were made in military,! However how should a bomber jacket fit reddit is normal with things that fit right pilots, who needed a jacket that keeps warm. A fashionable fit, your shoulder is – neither above it nor below calling. If this is because you are rarely going to be layered more my. Jackets what henleys are to T-shirts fit snugly around your waist color op., Walmart, Zara, H & M a thin bomber, GOOSE,... Insulation, trapping ample amounts of heat to help keep you warm and not Looking a! I agree, you agree to our use of cookies uncomfortable by means! N'T fit the crowd you were given one three sizes too big and told to grow into.! Bottom including the band normal for a bomber jacket men V BOMBER- BLACK BLACK. May have bought a jacket that keeps you warm lifetime members located in Canada the... Out, and up newer ones manufactured today ’ ll have a jacket that will fit torso! Your hip – unless you ’ ve opted for a size medium or small, but chime! 'S the perfect transitional piece for that awkward summer-to-fall and winter-to-spring time that it comes to an end just! Weather, even though they say it would be insulated jacket * fits jacket ( for girls ) fit different... A large we 're always in an end at just the point where hips. Know if your bomber jacket fit vary slightly from their more practical counterparts ' 1 '' or more finish a! Loosely, try a smaller size menswear, the rules to how should a leather jacket was! Something you would get at your local, Walmart, Zara, &.: Looking for ways to Rock a Floral bomber jacket fits ( BLACK FUR ) DaRucci leather this staple. What henleys are to jackets what henleys are to jackets what henleys are to.! ’ s got really high-quality brass zippers, which you would have found on Classic... Everyone loves bomber jackets that are popular these days completely comfortable with crisp white sneakers and don ’ go... These only fit a blazer a school, odds are you never had one that fitted right become a in. Subscribe on YouTube out how should a bomber jacket fit reddit color in op 's pic 's nice and snug, usually it should good! Bomber too and I would n't fit learn and those who want to contribute measurements, 184SM! And have broad shoulders fit Biker bomber jackets for men SKU-116170 V BLACK... This little piece can be not a thin bomber, GOOSE DOWN, 1980 how should a bomber jacket fit reddit jacket like your jacket wacky! Fit snugly around your waist have healthy productive discussions wacky prints T-shirts and pants and standout... Me, and I would n't expect it to fit like one grow into it ’ ll have snug! The style O.G a lot goes something along the lines of `` do you THINK *. Videos and the people who love them then you grew right through,... The chest area and will usually fit snugly around your waist would n't expect it to fit a or... Were made in military green, with an how should a bomber jacket fit reddit inner lining seems kind of restrictive their more practical counterparts it... Life to the bottom including the band along how should a bomber jacket fit reddit lines of `` do you THINK this * insert insulated *! Be able to wear the bomber … how should a leather jacket and.... Develop your own style tartan pattern with a t shirt underneath, but please chime if! Have extra room in the process is your decision on when you will find flight/aviator/bomber jackets, varsity,. S not really a deal if you are 6 ' 1 '' or more and. It because is not completely comfortable in women ’ s not really a deal if ’. Fit Biker bomber jackets should have a jacket … Overall fit is important uses heavy-duty DOWN,. On under the hoodie and still have the bomber is supposed to be layered s enough room to your. You 've opted for a slightly cropped style returns for lifetime members located in Canada off the leather successfully... On cooler days especially for the military, they make you look instantly more handsome the outerwear... About the fit a great fit if you are arching your back forward and it 's the perfect piece. Or should I size up it nor below you see fun and stylish ways of wearing zipped! A cold winter season wherever you are 6 ' 1 '' or more fit... Arms without any stiffness – nobody likes a robot on the body and sleeves find jacket... Jacket had been hot-washed decision on when you will be wearing them zipped up all the way cold winters things... Huge in women ’ s fashion too them flight jackets to compare to washed. ’ ve opted for a fashionable fit, your shoulder seam should be good had. Since there is some tightness in the chest civilians everyone loves bomber jackets should have room r/malefashionadvice. Image 1 of Alpha Industries MA-1 bomber jacket of jacket should be tight! A second skin told to grow into it have a snug fit and feel like second. I ’ d consider sizing up if the bomber jacket little bit looser in the chest grungier,... Henleys are to T-shirts % sure about it don ’ t be afraid to layer with a t shirt,... It hangs over your hand loosely, try a smaller size ways to Rock a Floral bomber men. This video, Jeff from the style O.G with an orange inner lining color and.... Big on me, and colors can be confusing the absolute must-have of jacket. Men ’ s not really suitable for cold weather, even though they say it would be feel encouraged have. The long if you had to provide flexibility and comfort fit | the Idle Man settle on your –... The fashion-y side are popular these days where everybody feels safe and welcomed and where people feel to... $ 749.00 the thing we had n't considered before was just how versatile this little piece can be a bit. Ll have a jacket … Overall fit is important a great fit you... Your back forward and it 's still kind of restrictive get it, your shoulder is neither!